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Who is that cool dude on c-files 首页？
刚从New River Gorge回来， 顺出差的道.
Canon G3 真好，谢谢各位。
欧洲是社会主义，假期多， 人想得开， 会吃会玩，夏天没人上班。
美国是资本主义，可怜只有三周假，抠抠擞擞不舍得用，临了还特有负罪感。到咱们这儿乡下一看，满眼的胖子，从不上山，还全开SUV. 真正outdoorsy people倒大多开小小的日本车。
本贴由janeclimber于2003年6月30日16:18:40在〖岩与酒〗发表.
请问Janeclimber
听桔子说你也在美国, 看你刚去了New River in West Virginia, 离我不远啊. 我刚刚搬到Southern Maryland, about 60 miles south of DC. 你住在哪儿?
From reading your posts, it seems like you're someone who is concerned about the environment and very cautious about safety in the outdoors, great qualities in an outdoors person. I also write to the Congress about environmental issues, but probably not as often as I should. Sadly, the current administration is very anti-environment. Too bad my home state (Florida) screwed up on that last election.
Anyway, I'm an experienced backpacker (among other things), but I've just started rock climbing. 桔子just introduced me to this forum. There are still a lot to learn. If you live close by, maybe one day I'll get the chance to learn some things from you.
本贴由天涯浪人于2003年7月04日00:40:58在〖岩与酒〗发表.
Carderock and the Great Falls
I reside in Oak Ridge, TN. There are quite a few areas that within 2 hours drive. We go to Obed a lot. I visit Maryland about twice a year to hang out with other mad scientists.
Yeah, I am the safety queen 'cause I work for the federal government dealing with potentially hazadous radiation in a daily base, and I am a member of the local search/rescue squad. After a while, safety becomes a reflex.
Carderock, MD and Great Falls, VA are the two climbing areas that close to you. I visited Carderock last March. It is a Beautiful area right outside DC, by the Potomac in a state park. It is mostly top-rope, from 5.5 to 5.12, all slabby, smooth, almost greasy. It is a good place for beginners, learning to trust your feet and clinch to small hand holds. There is no bolted routes. Carerock can be crowded in weekends. You need lots of webbing (two 30-foot at least) for setting up top-rope anchors. With a reverso, you can easily top-rope-solo.
You may find more info. on climbing from www.rockclimbing.com There is also a forum there for hooking up with other area climbers.
Maybe the Seneca Rocks, WV is closer to you than the New. I heard great things about Seneca but I haven't yet visited there.
crank on,
Jane
本贴由janeclimber于2003年7月06日12:14:46在〖岩与酒〗发表.
TN
I've never been to TN, other than the drive to the Great Smoky Mountains NP. My father taught in University of Tenneesee for a year as a visiting professor, he really liked Tenneesee.
How long have you been doing SAR? That's something I would be interested in getting into when I have the chance. Right now I don't any opportunity because there isn't a SAR unit locally, we don't have any large wilderness areas around. I live right by the Chesapeake Bay, near where the Patuxent River enters the bay. SAR on the water is carried out by the Coast Guard. I'm certified in Wilderness First Aid and CPR for Professional Rescuers, I'm thinking about getting certified as a WFR, but the class is so expensive (for me anyway), I won't be able to do it for a while.
Did you ever have to do any cave rescues? I know the TAG area is a very popular with cavers, I'd imagine you get a lot of caving incidents around there. I haven't done any caving yet, but the people I'm climbing with is talking about setting up a caving trip in the future. I moved to Maryland from Florida in late January of this year, but I'm adjusting very well. I've already hooked up with a bunch of people around the area who are experienced climbers / mountaineers / backpackers. Thanks for recommending all these places to climb, I'll go check them out soon. There are already talks about doing a trip out to Carderock. I've done some backpacking trips to Virginia and West Virginia since I moved here, Seneca Rocks was very close to where I went backpacking last time, about 5 hours away from where I live. At the end of this month, I'm doing my first mountaineering trip with an experienced mountaineer named Dan. We are going to Oregon to bid a summit attempt to Mt. Hood. It should be fun.
I've been backpacking for five years, and I've only met one other Chinese person who is into the outdoors. It's just rare to see another Asian person on the trail doing more than just day hikes. I know we are the minority and all, but I'm often the only Asian in the circle of backpackers, climbers, kayakers I hang out with. It doesn't bother me, but it just makes me curious as to why. Outdoor pursuits have became increasingly popular in China, but for some reason it doesn't seem to really catch on with Chinese people in the US. That's why I'm very surprised to found another Chinese person who is very much into the outdoors, and even with a lot of experience it seems. I hope we can keep in touch, and maybe when I make it down to the Great Smokies again we can go and hang out on the rocks. =)
本贴由天涯浪人于2003年7月07日02:11:47在〖岩与酒〗发表.
Outdoor snobs
You got it wrong. I am a member of the search resecue team for my working environment only.
Southereastern Climbers Coalition has a website listing decent crags below the Mason-Dixie line. www.seclimbers.org
Since the Roman time, Europeans has long integrated sport and physical fitness as part of a gentleman's education. The Oxford and Cambridge snobs join in rowing teams and play polo. Outdoor sport started as a gentlemen pass-time in Europe two centuries ago. It was much later brought into US by the Europeans in the 1900's. Sierra Club was founded then. Fritz Wiessner, a German-American who almost got to the top of K2, put up many FA's in the gunks in the 1930's. Until very recently, most of the American outdoor enthusiasts are yuppies who follow the tradition. Ivy league schools have all sorts of outdoor curriculum. Cornell has ice-climbing in the Adirondacks for two credit hours and owns the highest man-made roackwall east of the Mississippi. Princeton has a big outdoor club. The New England prep school kids go to Maine for winter backpacking. As after Chris Sharma became a rock star, lot of high school kids are into climbing because it is just so "cool".
Nevertheless, sport was never high on the priority list for educated Chinese, ever since the time of Confusius. Have you ever seen a masculine Chinese nude sculpture like "the David"? None.
Fortunately now the new Chinese yuppies are very much into outdoor sports. I was so glad to hang out with the Beijing climbers last September!
There was no outdoor tradition in the old Chinese culture. Bits of rock climbing and xc-ski began to appear on TV in the 80's and early 90's. Chinese kids came to study in US are mostly bookwarms and later went on become the Chinese yuppies in America. These sorry arses spent most of time study study study and then they get a job have kids buy big house get fancy cars and feel old! Most of the interesting people are still in China. At least I met a bunch of them in Beijing. Even these in the states who are active, they are mainly into indoor sports or team sports such as badminton, tenis, pingpong, volleyballs, basketballs, and soccer. Because that was what most of the Chinese kids did in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.
本贴由janeclimber于2003年7月07日12:23:05在〖岩与酒〗发表.
Whoa!
I don't know where you work, but it must be gigantic if it requires its own SAR team.
In my opinion, I don't think outdoor pursuits are just sports for the yuppies. In fact, a lot of outdoor recreations aren't really sports, such as camping, hiking, backpacking, and to some extend, mountaineering. I believe the reason behind outdoor pursuits comes from the spirit of exploring and the love for the wilderness. The early explorers such as Lewis and Clark, and the lesser known David Thompson of Canada, were not European "gentlemen". They were soldiers, fur traders, navigators, surveyors, and map makers. Later this love for the wilderness was further spread to the general public by pioneers of conservation like John Muir and Ansel Adams.
Nowadays, outdoor pursuit has become hip, in-style. Especially with the popularity of extreme sports, the x-games, the SUVs and the TV commercials sporting SUVs in rugged wilderness. Sure, there are yuppies who takes helicopter rides into a remote mountain to go snowboarding in their North Face Gore-tex jackets. But there are also good o'boys sporting Coleman tents, Walmart flannel jackets, hiking up a mountain with homemade hiking sticks and having loads of fun. They are all outdoor enthusiasts, all enjoying what nature has to offer. They are all equally important, for if more people get out and enjoy nature, more people will likely to vote in favor of the environment.
We Chinese certainly don't have a tradition for the outdoors, that I understand. It is an issue with the culture. But what about American born Chinese who grew up with more social influence from the US? If the outdoor recreation can catch on with so many Americans, why not the ABCs? By the same token, why is outdoor recreation more popular with Chinese in China now than with Chinese in America? It's kind of backwards, rather amusing.
BTW, do you do anything else outdoors besides climbing, or are you strictly a climber?
本贴由天涯浪人于2003年7月08日13:10:56在〖岩与酒〗发表.
Ansel Adams
You missed my point of arguement.
The love of nature seeds in everyone's heart. Nevertheless, not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to participate outdoor activities. It is a general but true observation that percentage wise, minimal incomers are less likely to be climbers, hikers, or kayakers. I was just trying to figure out the social, economic, and cultural reasons behind this phenomenon. Just giving an example of Ansel Adams, he grew up in San Francisco, whose family had a summer home in Yosemite. He got his first camera when he was 12 or so. Can you imaging a maid's son in the early 1900's getting a camera for his birthday? Instead, the poor kid is likely working in a laundry facility or a coal mine. And more likely, the kid had to baby-sit his five younger siblings. After six long days of hard labor every week, I don't really expect the kid to go out climbing the Half Dome.
Let us examine the situation in China. The Chinese outdoor freaks prove my theory. Quite a few Beijing craggers are computer engineers. They own cars. They went to college. They speak English fluently. Some of them even studied in the US. They are the cream of the crop and the hope of a new China, if you ask me.
Lewis and Clark's expedition was a mission commanded by Thomas Jefferson and approved by the Congress. Caption Lewis was Jefferson's personal secretary and Cpt. Clark was chosen to lead the expedition with Lewis. They could happen to be nature-lovers. But the expedition was their job. They didn't do it for pleasure. I would say John Muir is more an outdoor freak that I feel more in common with.
I do know many outdoorsy second generation Chinese and ethnic Chinese from other countries. Mind you that Asians count for less than 5% of the total population. The odds of encounter one at trail head is much less.
Other than climbing, I cycle (road/mtn), xc-ski, hike, and occasionally kayak. Alpinism is the next thing on my agenda.
本贴由janeclimber于2003年7月08日21:20:52在〖岩与酒〗发表.
Hikers, campers, fishermen, etc.
I see your argument. I'm just seeing things from a different point of view. "It is a general but true observation that percentage wise, minimal incomers are less likely to be climbers, hikers, or kayakers..." do you have any reference to back up this statement? I'm just curious. My personal observation has been the opposite. But I'm curious if there are any formal studies done on the relationship between been active in the outdoors and household income, I would be very interested in seeing it.
I think I fundamentally disagree with you that the outdoors can be better enjoyed only by people with a higher income. I don't have any reference to backup my following statement, but from personal experiences, I see lower income people enjoy outdoor recreation just as much as the higher income people, especially in rural areas where the outdoors is much easily accessible to them. They may not do things that requires a higher investment in equipment like rock climbing, kayaking, mountain biking. But there are many ways to enjoy the outdoors, some doesn't cost a lot of money. I certainly see them do things like hiking, car camping, fishing, canoeing, and so on.
Looking at your proposed question in finer detail: is it likely that the maid's son living in the NYC would go backpacking in the Catskill once in a while? I agree the answer there is "probably not". But is it likely that the son of a construction worker living in Petersburg, WV, would go camping in Monongahela NF with his buddies on weekends? I say it is. All the discount retailers such as Wal-mart, K-mart, Target, and many others stock camping gear. They wouldn't stock these if nobody buys them. You and I may not take a second look at these tents, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, but they are perfect for those on a tight budget. I've met plenty of low-budget outdoor enthusiasts on the trail over the years, I was trying to get this point across in my last post. I may not agree with some of the ways they enjoy nature, but ultimately, I believe that the outdoors should be open for everyone, young or old, rich or poor.
Cpt. Lewis and Cpt. Clark were both skilled outdoorsmen before they were soldiers. So were the rest of the Corps of Discovery, except Seaman the dog. He was just a dog. =) Cpt. Lewis was President Jefferson's personal secretary and protégé. That no doubt had influence in his appointment as the expedition leader. But President Jefferson must was aware of his outdoor skills as well. If President Jefferson was to appoint some Oxford educated gentlemen as the eleader, he would probably not be able to endure the harsh journey and make it all the way to the Pacific coast and back. My point is, even though the expedition was their job, they finished it because they loved the outdoors. Else they would have turned back when their food ran low, or when they were hit with the harsh mid-West winter, or when they had to cross the seemly impassable Bitterfoot Range in the Rockies. Only if you love what you do, can you do it so well. I have no doubt that they took pleasure in doing their job.
To prove that, I give you an example. On April 4, 1805, after spending a harsh winter in North Dakoda where the temperature dropped to 45 degrees below zero and many expedition members suffered frostbite, the Corps of Discovery headed west into territory that no whitemen had ever set foot upon. On that same day, Cpt. Lewis wrote in his journal, "We were now about to penetrate a country at least two thousand miles in width, on which the foot of civilized man had never trodden. I could but esteem this moment of my departure as among the most happy of my life."
Now tell again that this was only a job to them.
本贴由天涯浪人于2003年7月10日11:38:09在〖岩与酒〗发表.
barking up the wrong tree
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本贴由janeclimber于2003年7月11日05:46:52在〖岩与酒〗发表.
No need to use insult
Up till this point, I thought this is a friendly discussion. But I guess somehow you think otherwise.
So I will stop right here. I wish you the best in the future, stay safe in all your outdoor pursuits. So long!
Out and out.
本贴由天涯浪人于2003年7月11日18:48:38在〖岩与酒〗发表.
sorry if you take it as an insult
Ha, you just assume I accuse you of "barking up the wrong tree". But, have you thought that it could be me feeling like "I was barking up the wrong tree"? Well, well, very interesting. That is the exact reason I can't keep on the discussion. An arguement is not fun when the debaters get all these misconceptions...
Well, I have decided to stop barking. I much prefer to leave the difference there. Diversity and individuality are the beauty of this free free world.
本贴由janeclimber于2003年7月11日22:46:22在〖岩与酒〗发表. |
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