Hua shan (华山) help

AnLong

Hi!

During 1-7 May i am planning on going to Huashan in Shaanxi province. Has any of you ever been there or even better, climbed there? Does any of you know the area? If yes, please let me know because i have some questions...

I know the CMA has plans in the area for quite a while and I intend to respect that so i will stay away from the main walls (west peak and north peak) - it is not my intention to upset anybody nor to spoil anyone's plans, so i will look for other objectives.My understanding is that the area is quite big - big enough to keep everybody happy.

Also - I found this on the internet. Do you know anything about this event?
http://www.highking.cn/xx2.asp?id=22

What does it actually mean?....

Many thanks in advance!
C

PS - answers in Chinese are OK too - babelfish does a decenet translation...

慕澜

官方网站：

http://www.hsclimbing.com/

不是谁都能参加的，要中登协挑出来的。

AnLong

Thanks! I do not intend to take part in that activity. Just came across it and not sure what actually was. I will make my own plans once i arrive in Huashan.

Do you know if there any routes already in Huahshan and someone who can give me some info (maybeeven pictures) about certain crags io am interested in?
Much appreciated!
C

mh

it's going to be quite crowded around May Day holidays there.s

AnLong

Yup... but unfortunately am bound to holidays for my climbing trips... It's a bummer but no other option.

Do you know if there has been much climbing done there?
C

mh

Not much climbing with respect to it's scale. You can find several reports of previous explorations on the net. The park restricts climbing. And certain evil climbing organizations want to keep FA themselves.
Want to go do some ski touring in Xinjiang instead? Does the Bogda area sound interesting?

AnLong

Bogda sounds good but my 1-7 May break is definitelly not enough....
I will keep away from the West peak and N peak (the main prizes of the area), but am wondering if i'll have to sneak in at night for other outcrops or climbing other cliffs would be OK.

Is there any specific written regulation that bans climbing overall or on certain crags? Would be good to know.
C

PS: "you can find several reports of previous explorations on the net." Do you have any links?
Cheers

mh

Here is a report of a recent climb. Click on the links in the page to read about background. Sadly Xinan Liu was killed abou two weeks ago in Sichuan.

http://travel.sohu.com/20050407/n225075920.shtml

AnLong

Cheers! I know about this attempt..... and the story around it...
Liu Xinan as a good friend - hoped will go together this summer for a wall... He will be missed...

Is there any official rule banning climbing in Hua Shan? I know CMA has a training crag there - that would be quite counterintuitive then....
C

小毛驴0024

http://zidiyiyang.blog.sohu.com/35926185.html

AnLong? Are you?!
Have you found your lost climb equipments? I heard from a girl climber in Chengdu that some of your equipments are kept in ChengDu SMA office now. May we help yours returned?

他去爬幺妹，上链接里讲的他的那个遭遇：人在半山上，BC来了SMA高家兄弟，收走一些东西，说是非法登山。他们爬不成就下来了，就回到日隆交了注册费和2400元罚款。AnLong和那香港哥们还损失了绳子、高山靴等若干玩意。我听成都的C姑娘说，好象至今那些东西还在SMA高家兄弟那。这不过是半年多前发生的事情......

倾听冷雨

对，anlong就是cosmin，现在在广州这边做教师，如果可以帮忙拿回来，那真是要感谢你了

AnLong

Hello! Thank you very much for your message! Yes indeed - that gear that has been missing belongs to us. It would be great to have it back! MAny thanks for letting me know!

-----
AnLong? Are you?!
Have you found your lost climb equipments? I heard from a girl climber in Chengdu that some of your equipments are kept in ChengDu SMA office now. May we help yours returned?

他去爬幺妹，上链接里讲的他的那个遭遇：人在半山上，BC来了SMA高家兄弟，收走一些东西，说是非法登山。他们爬不成就下来了，就回到日隆交了注册费和2400元罚款。AnLong和那香港哥们还损失了绳子、高山靴等若干玩意。我听成都的C姑娘说，好象至今那些东西还在SMA高家兄弟那。这不过是半年多前发生的事情......

AnLong

Today i found out that I will not be allowed to climb at HuaShan. Although I had no intention in climbing the West peak for which I know the CMA and the park management have some media plans, and also no wall anywhere near the tourists, still I was refused the right to climb without a special authorisation from the Ministry of Sport (!!!!) The motivation was that there were climbing accidents involving foreigners (!!!!) and that the Park has the responsibility!!! (first is a lie - second is a nonsense)

I find this very frustrating! It is frustrating that a company can shut down and charge for no service at all hectares of land! I don't mind at all paying fees for a service (cable car, stairs, restaurant, salubrisation, etc), but i find it revolting to have to pay just to be able to walk in a forest for which no private company has any credit!!!!

Then I find it revolting again that a company will forbid someone qualified or not to exercise free will and climb a rockface, climb that poses no danger to anyone else but the climber!

Thirdly - and this extends to further mountaineering activities in China,- i fidn it inadmissible to ahve to pay different fees tahn Chinese climbers only because i am not a Chinese ID card holder. Nowhere in the West Chinese climbers are charged different prices than locals!!!!

A Chinese climber can climb for free on routes in the Alps - Chinese climbers did not contribute to those routes being put up, nor to salubrisation of the area, yet they are allowed to climb there for no fee, and if charged fees for hotels or food or transportation (services) they are charged the same fee as the locals. I, on the other hand I have to pay climbing fees and need permits pretty much in all alpine areas... while Chinese climbers do not.

The Parks services in the US would never dream such an abuse as to shut down Yosemite, charge a fee to enter the Park and forbid climbing. They actually charge only for services they provide - parking, camping, etc...

The policy of squeezing out money from everything and everybody does no good at promoting this sport here and the only phenomenon that happens is that there is such promoted illegal climbing. Those of us who are fool enough to obey the rules and go about things the legal way either end up paying silly prices or we get shut down.

The result - might be looking for other climbing destinations with more logical rules governing them.

Just imagine what an Asian climbing destination could be HuaShan and with what revenue from camping and services, only if some people would care to take out their heads frm their a&^%s

C

小河

如果你不能在华山攀岩，而你又没有其他的选择，却有时间；你可以考虑去郭亮和南坪攀岩，这里有很多很多的岩壁在100m-200m高，有很多的裂缝--你见过照片的！没有任何人会干扰你的攀登，也没有任何人收任何额外的费用（门票除外），这里也不区别对待中国人和外国人，这里的空气很好，攀登的人也不多（北京会有10多人过去）。

AnLong

Thank you very much for the advice. I will keep this in mind as an option.
Cheers again!

裂缝

这帮人压根就没打算推广这项运动。在没有麻烦的前提下捞点钱，这就是他们的想法。毕竟乌纱帽更重要。

为什么一定要爬华山呢？四川的大岩壁更多啊。

AnLong

The problem with Sichuan, in my case are these:

- For a short holiday (7 days - example October and May holidays) the combination altitude and distance makes it impossible do do a serious technical climb in Sichuan. I would need at least 9 days judging from past experience.

- In summer, when i have a longer time, Sichuan is affected by the rainy season and although big wall climbing is possible it's just a miserable pain.

Huashan is good for short holidays because of the ease of approach, no altitude issue and fairly drier in the summer months. I found Sichuan better as a winter project.

There are quite a lot of big walls in China, and some of them in accessible areas, but this silly habit of putting a fence around every mountain in this country and banning access unless you are a group andd have a suit and are ready to go up with the cable car, leaves as serious objectives only those in Xinjiang, Xizhan and Sichuan (where again one has other problems... distance and time needed being only two).

There are many places without access problems if you want to sport climb, but if you want to do big wall - that is 350m/400m up its not that easy to find an accesible place. Huashan and Huangshan are two potential places but managed in a stupid and destructive way.

裂缝

并非每一座山都有fence。中国很大的，找个地方happy一下还是比较容易的。只要你不追求什么处女登，呵呵：）

湖北省恩施沐抚大峡谷

AnLong

Thanks! I'll put this on my list. Looks like limestone - maybe a bit rotten(?).
C

mh

c'mon AnLong. No one said climbing was easy. Bureaucrats is just one of the obstacle we all have to deal with. to put it in a more positive light, the redtape and inaccessibility you encountered in China is what makes a lot of places pristine, in a way it is why China isn't as crowded as the Alps. There are more first ascent possibilities because it is difficult to access. Of course climbers don't mind natural hurdles but hate man-made troubles. I am just saying there is another side to it.

AnLong

My being annoyed comes when i have to deal with unfair treatment and with abusive red-tape.

The parts of China which are pristine are so because they are inaccessible - compared to the North faces of the Alps. (Xinjiang, Tibet and some parts of Sichuan)

The places that are accessible, the so called "scenic spots" are most often boulevards built on top of rubbish piles. A disgusting sight to look don the slopes.Anything but pristine.

There are indeed many opportunities for first ascents here but that has to do with the size of the country (as big as Europe) compared to the number of alpine/big wall climbers active which is in reverse proportion to the one in Europe.

Indeed, there is another side to it - the ugly one!

AnLong

And indeed, climbing is not easy - but private companies shutting down public land and acting arbitrary is not climbing - not even logistics.

I climbed on three continents and never needed a paper signed by the Ministry of Sport so i can climb; that is even more absurd when the area has designated climbing areas and media propaganda attached to it.

I was happy to pay the access fee as any trekker there has to and to follow protocol. The absurd requirment for climbing is what i see as abusive and the lack of an appeal instance.

AnLong

Relocation: :)

I came across some pictures of a place in Anhui which seems to have some decent granite albeit not that high by no means and looks like it's within a long drive (10hs) from Guangzhou.I guess that's where i'll be heading to instead of Huashan. Not too much time to put together another trip and book reasonable flight ticket .

mh

write and publish how you were treated by the ministry of sports and *MA. that will give them a run for their money. I am sure Jon Otto and Johan Heersink have tons of stories about it.
except for cragging I don't think Guangdong is a good place for climbing.

AnLong

That's true - if i were back at climbing full time i would probably choose a different location, but having a non-climbing related job that pays resonably, good climate and proximity to HK while still being able to go climbing 2hs drive away to a place similar to Yangshuo, makkes GZ quite a good spot to be. Plus - i have now here many friends :o)

jane

I don't know how soon the situation will change in China, the fact that the local gansta randomly set a gate and started charging folks a fee.  

The Gao Brothers in Sichuan are just despicatble.  Sponsored atheletes don't dare to speak out.  So it is our free climbers's mission to let the truth be known.